I am going on my first international trip! (Puerto Penasco, the AlCan Highway, and Caribbean cruises don't count.) Specifically, Dad and I have tickets to the 40th annual Edinburgh Military Tattoo on August 23rd. This is something I've been wanting to do for decades, and Dad has promised to take me since college. The plan is to take two or more weeks off in August (I'd like four), and with only the one evening set in stone there's any number of things we can do. Still in the prelim planning stage -- any suggestions? I'm thinking I'd like to spend at least a couple days in London, and check out the Scottish pub-music scene, but other than that I've no idea as of yet. Suggestions welcome.

Hey, Gobbo, whereabouts do you live?

The British Museum and the Imperial War Museum are both must see tickets. Pickadilly is great and you'd be remiss to not tour the Tower. Some castles are better than others, of course, but Edinburgh's is awesome.

Although, I don't think I'm telling you anything you haven't already considered. If it were me and the Snugglepack ™, we'd spend a day in Thirsk, North Yorkshire. This is the historical setting of James Herriot's All Creatures series of books. But hey, that's just the kind of geeks we are.

Ahhh All creatures great and small what a great program!


"Just call Vet'nry, they can sort out ol' bessy"

I'm in Warrington.

Historically it was one of the first towns to raise it's flag in support of the king during the civil war. Also a rallying points for the kings forces during the civil war. There is a grand total of about 3 landmarks, and all on the same street, so not that worth a visit unless your passing through.

That's not to say we shouldn't meet though, Chester is just down the road and worth a viewing as it's still got it's defensive wall standing (there are a couple of good tours). Or Leeds, home of the Leeds armouries (the largest arms and armour museum in the UK, I absolutely love it).

If you go to any, I'd highly recommend Leeds (they even have a nice music scene, according to my sister who's at Uni there) if you see a couple of the interpretations, the armoury can take a whole day. If you have more time Chester is worth a view of the wall, the 'old' town and the cathedral.

Edinburgh eh? TRAINSPOTTING TIME

Ah, my mother had a very bad experience in Scotland. I suppose it would have helped if the guy running her hotel hadn't left to go pick up groceries, and locked her out. Have fun looking at our country of origin!

The most important thing to do there is buy a clay pig. My mother bought one for me, and it's quite nice, indeed.

I have heard only good things about the Tattoo. Amazing good things, really. It is an event that I want to do some day. *jealous*

As far as visiting Gobbo, he is an incredible host and Chester is a pretty cool town, too. We didn't see much of Warrington-I think we drove past one of the landmarks with a 'Cromwell slept there' remark form Gobbo.

Enjoy your trip

GNOME

Actually it was "There's a plaque saying Cromwell slept there on that pub. But really that's only there because it's the last building from that time still standing, it's only known that he slept in the general area."

My towns interesting historic things to see amount to the following: The aforementioned pub. A church down the road with cannonball marks in the back (Cromwell ordered our church fired on because we supported the king and refused to join him). A museum that's only really twice the size of my house, and not well funded. Oh, and a statue of Cromwell, but that's not really too old. We're really not a historic town (which is a pity for me).

I find it slightly irksome that the town supported the king, yet all the historic stuff is from Cromwell

Bovington Tank Museum if you have the time in your 2 weeks is a great all day type visit, especially if they have the Tiger I out and running.

http://www.tankmuseum.org/

I applied to them several years ago when they had a librarian slot open. It would have been the PERFECT job for me... (sigh) You can be sure I'll poke my nose in.

Well, we have confirmation on the time - Flying in to Heathrow 31 July, out of Heathrow 28 August. Plenty of time. Dad was thinking of going through Manchester instead, but this works fine too. This gives us the op for a day trip to Bovington. But here's the catch:

Should we explore London and environs, or Carlisle/Manchester/Gobbo et al, at the beginning or end of the trip? We'd have three days after the Tattoo to get back to London, and I'm not sure what route we'd want to take or how much we could see in that time. I'm thinking of taking more time in southern England toward the start, then going north via Manchester and Carlisle, then around Scotland. Thoughts?

Give yourself the day you arrive to do nothing but overcome jetlag. US to UK is a buttkicker so I wouldn't plan anything important on that day, at least not anything that yu really want to stick in your memory.

I think the way you're thinking of should be fine Jen. It sounds like the way I'd probably plan things (which probably means it's wrong ).

Manchester is actually closer to me than the couple of places I've recommended seeing (read: 20 mins by car or train). Home of the fabulous Waterbowl BB league! Though I've never been in as a tourist, the main thing I'm able to point out there is some good places to play Blood Bowl in the centre It DOES have some very nice museums though, I remember visiting most of them when I was younger...

Don't jinx me, mister.

I did glance over Manchester and there's some things Dad and I would probably like, like the Northern branch of the Imperial War Museum, and of course Hadrian's Wall (though, how crowded is it?). And of course I'd love to touch base with you for supper, a drink, or a Blood Bowl demo in Warrington or anywhere else you like. Dad's not a gamer but he doesn't mind -- at least, he's resigned to it. And he's met Gnome, so despite his family's example he accepts that some gamers can be mature.

We are seriously thinking of taking a train north from London and not renting a car until Manchester or thereabouts -- Dad has bad memories of London traffic. Good idea?

The only real problem with London traffic (and Manchester traffic to another degree) is that if you don't watch out you're stuck in a 1 way system, and then it's like a maze trying to get where you want to go. Given the size of Manchester I can recommend parking up as soon as you get in there, and then taking the rest of the place in at a walk. Most the good stuff is in the centre anyway, so you're not looking at a long walk to get to most places.

I think London is better (but busier) than Manchester to get around. But don't quote me on that, I don't really visit.

Like I said before, Warrington isn't the best place for a visit (maybe a flying one) as there's not much to see. But there's always Manchester for an afternoon, Chester, or Leeds for a day if you wanted to meet, as those are the places I know my way around. Maybe even a couple of those.

As for mature gamers? Uhm... Yes, I don't think I'm a good ambassador for that particular message

I fell out of my chair.

No, really, I had to explain to my boss why I was laughing to tears.





GNOME

Glad I made your day. Perhaps I should have said "can maintain a cunning illusion of maturity in the presence of Mundanes."

Again, not something I'm *too* good at.

By the way Jen. Depending roughly when you get to my neck of the woods, you and your dad are more than welcome to stay at 'casa de gobbos family' for a couple of nights. We may not have much to see, but we're a half hour drive (or a 20 minute train, my local station is literally round the corner) from Manchester, and close to Chester and Leeds, so it may save on hotels a bit.

Ah, Jen, almost forgot to wish good non-English weather on you May your vacation be one of sun and museums!

GNOME

Haha, I remember navigating to London. No navigation plan survives first contact with the M25.

Well, we've pretty much got the first and last week planned out (not quite nailed down, as Dad's still making reservations). We'll fly into Heathrow August 1 and immediately take the train to Southampton, which will be our base for a few days. We'll go to Portsmouth to see the D-Day Museum, and the dockyard (with HMS Victory), and also spend a day at Bovington. On the 4th, we'll take the train to Manchester and rent a car, then visit Chester, the Imperial War Museum branch in Manchester, and hopefully Hadrian's Wall, and head to Carlisle the 6th or 7th where I want to see the castle and the Border Regiment museum. So for Gobbo's reference, we'll be in his area roughly 4th to 6th. The next two weeks are up in the air; we both want to see the islands, Dad wants to visit Iona, I'd like to spend a few days in the Highlands at a bed-n-breakfast. Oh, and the Battlefield Band is in Glasgow on I think the 9th, but will also be in Edinburgh around the same time as us.

We'll be in Edinburgh 20th to 23rd (our tickets are for the night of the 23rd, and we'll leave in the morning of the 24th for Manchester). Then the rest of the time will be sightseeing in London before we fly out on the 28th.

If you're hitting the islands, be sure to try an island whisky. Jura is quite pleasant, but you might find the Islay whiskies more of a challenge (Laphroaig, Ardbeg).

Looks like we're gonna try camping in the Highlands -- we'll buy a tent, sleeping bags and air-mattresses at Tesco's, which ought to run us less than a few days in a hotel even if we have to discard them before leaving.

Suggestions for packing? One problem is that, while I can take two suitcases, I'll have to lug them at least briefly during those periods when we don't have a car. I'm going to look around for duffle bags this weekend, and also a windbreaker and better shoes.

Also, what about money? Does Britain take Visa debit cards, or Discover credit cards? How much cash should I carry? (Dad reckons 200 Pounds.)

Three weeks to go!

Visa yes, pretty much everywhere. Though you may want to check with your bank as sometimes a charge appearing in England may get your account flagged for being "abnormal".

Discover probably not (I don't recall being able to use mine last time I was there in 03), AMEX definitely not. However, AMEX does have locations all over England where you can get your AMEX travelers cheques exchanged for pounds.

As far as cash, it really comes down to what you are comfortable with carrying and how well you plan to protect that. My wife and I took about 500 pounds with us for that trip. However we were staying with friends so outside of travel costs we weren't really paying for food for every meal. We were there for 10 days. 9 days of tourist stuff (Stone Henge, Bovington, Imperial War museum and the like) and 1 day of Games Day UK.

Pick pockets are all over in London. I always carried my wallet in a zipper leg pocket on my shorts when I was there. If you are using a small wallet or bill fold and just wear jeans then I'd recommend double wrapping a rubber band around it. Makes it very hard for someone to slip it out of your pocket without you noticing.

As far as packing, if you aren't going to make use of hotels regularly then check the train/tube stations near the sites you are going to see if they have lockers. You can stash your may bag in there for X amount and then just carry a day pack with you. Oh and if you go to Buckingham Palace be prepared to give up your bag at the door (you'll get a claim ticket). Otherwise you have to unsling it and carry it in front of you at all times.

Don't know about London (haven't been there since '83), but in Paris this spring, it was easy to go to an ATM and get cash out as needed with my regular debit card. You get surcharged out the butt, of course, but it's safer than carrying a big wad of cash. Check with your bank and make sure your card will work overseas--odds are it will. My debit card worked, and my bank is a local business with maybe 12 branches total. If you're a customer of a big bank, like Bank of America (bastards!), you should be fine.

+1 to what Kurgy said about contacting your credit card companies ahead of time and telling them you'll be overseas. Otherwise, they'll lock down your cards for suspicious activity ("Hmmm....Jen lives in FL but her card is being used in London").

Make that +2. Happened to my sister when she visited Canada. The worst part was that they phoned us (she still lives with the family) to tell her they'd done it, but as we weren't her, we weren't allowed to say she's in Canada to them. Stupid red tape...

VISA cards should work. Be prepared to show a passport for some purchases though. Don't let your card leave your sight.

As well as telling your issuer you are abroad, don't forget to tell them when you're back, and be sure to check your bill anyway. There's a lot of duping that goes on in the UK too, and tourists are an easy mark generally.


£200 cash for a month, for two? Well, it'll cover your basic living and travel costs easy enough. Bear in mind that some remoter locations prefer cold hard cash to plastic.

Also be very aware of the large amount of forged notes in the UK, so expect some smaller stores not to take your £10 notes or £20 notes on occasion.

Another important point on currency is that Scotland has money of its own, and the further south you go the less likely people will accept it. Before leaving for Manchester, try to get rid of your Scottish money. Ideally anytime someone hands you a Scottish note in Scotland, you'll want to use it for payment at your next opportunity.

Scottish notes are helpfully identified by having Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland, or Clydesdale Bank marked on them. You may get Northern Ireland notes marked Northarn Bank or Bank of Ireland, you'll want to spend those before you leave Scotland too. Scotland has close links with NI and the money is generally accepted, but again you'll find it harder to spend the further south you go.

English BANKS will accept most notes from anywhere in the UK, but despite this smaller businesses in England can and ususally will refuse to take your money.



Aside from all that, Kurg's security suggestions are very sound, and Gobbo probably has a bank that he can take any of your rogue funny money to if he were motivated to do so (Earl Grey with a FRESH CUT slice of lemon (awesome!!!)).

And I forgot to say, we'll take Visa, but not Discover.

Actually, make that "I've never even seen a discover card, so wouldn't know"

Stay on the road, keep clear of the moors and beware the moon

A bit of a change -- Dad can't find lodgings in Southampton so we'll stay in Portsmouth (which contains everything he wants to see anyway) and we'll get a car when we arrive, drop it off in Edinburgh, and take the train back to London.

I've been looking at ferry routes and it looks like we could easily loop around the Lower Hebrides for a few days. Taking the car on board might be a hefty extra charge, though, and also dunno where we'd come back to the mainland. What I'd like to do afterward is take the Road to the Isles; I think Dad wants to camp around Fort William/Glencoe/Ben Nevis, and then we'd drive up to Inverness along the lochs and then south to Edinburgh for the Tattoo. (I would like to see Aberdeen and maybe Dundee.) Since we're thinking of being in Glasgow 'til the 9th, that would give us only 10 days to get to Edinburgh, which doesn't sound like enough time for both the lochs and the Isles...

Seat of the pants travel! Fun, but be ready to spend more

Hope it is as awesome as it sounds One day, I am gunna go to the Tattoo, too

GNOME

Dad's reserved a hotel room in Glasgow for the 6th, 7th and 8th. He wants to leave Casa de Gobbo very early on the 6th, go thru Carlisle (seeing the castle on the way) and then on to Glasgow. Which would probably work, since it's open 9:30 to 5, and we'd get to Glasgow in the evening. Doesn't look like they have a cafe, though; we'd have to bring lunch and picnic.

I think there's a lot he wants to see (or revisit) in Glasgow. There's a piping festival going on there in August, too.

Our reservations in Edinburgh start the 20th, which gives us 11 days to visit the Hebrides, the highlands, and whatever that bulge north of Edinburgh is called (contains Aberdeen and Dundee).

Any idea whether it's possible to do a meaningful Bovington visit in less than four hours? Dad wants to see Solent Sky air museum on the way back, which since they both close at 5PM may be difficult.

Edit: OK, we're camping on Mull on the 10th, then browsing the islands the next few days. That leaves 11th - 19th completely open still, everything else is planned.

This time next week I'll be in Warrington!

We are now in the Bed and Breakfast in Portsmouth. Turns out they have the Fleet in town for "Navy Days," even better since we can see some modern ships tomorrow in addition to the Warrior and Victory. We'll be here for three nights then off to Manchester.

The navsat did misdirect us on the way out of the airport but we found our way. Walked down to the waterfront after arriving and saw the Spinnaker Tower. Off for supper now.

Be verrrry careful of SatNav in the UK. There are a disturbing number of stories that involve someone's SatNav sending them off cliffs or into unsavoury places.

There's a submarine museum around Portsmouth, as I recall.

Enjoying the English summer? It doesn't get any better

Love the GPS. Hug your GPS. It will protect you and care for you. It's 'leading you astray' was a lesson: respect the navvie and never ever leave it alone in the car: it has feelings too...

which brings me to my next point, my navvie sent me on a wild goose chase yesterday... went from Bookman's on Ina to the La Encatrada mall (Skyline Drive, so rich it makes money look worthless...) by way of the 210/Alvernon... Yeah, a ten minute drive that took about an hour... we didn't get straightened out until we went to Hat's and got on the interwebs!

GNOME

Sorry to be answering so late Jen:

Bovington is doable in 4 hours. When I was there last (03) we drove from London to Bovington, did the museum and then got to Stone Henge just as they were closing the gates for the night. So it shouldn't be an issue.

However, you may want to stay longer if the Tiger is running (or any of the other tanks that they take out on the course).

Bovington was pretty cool. The most vehicles I have ever seen inside a single building - Pima has the sense to spread them out over the desert. Sadly, we were unaware until we arrived that they were open until 8pm on weekdays, which meant we have to give the D-Day Museum a miss. We've both wanted to see the tapestry there for a long time.

The Tiger wasn't running, but they had a demonstration of tank types and tactics in the arena which was fun to watch. Lots and lots of iconic vehicles. It must be very easy to get T55s as they have at least three.

England has tonloads of ex-Russian everything. There's a decommissioned sub in Folkestone (Foxtrot B-39 , U 475) which is interesting to visit, if you're ever out that way. Perhaps next time?

I've a few internal photos of it somewhere, maybe upload them for you some year.



*looks at watch*

Heh. Well, Warrington was very relaxing, all thanks to Gobbo and his family who were very welcoming. Gobbo showed us the church that Cromwell shot up; I liked it myself, not so much for the building but for all the gravestones that have been turned to paving stones around the building. I could have stayed for hours just reading memorials. The same goes for all the churches we've been in, actually; we saw Carlisle Cathedral and a smaller church yesterday, and Lanercost Priory near Hadrian's Wall this morning. A whole section of the cathedral is given over to memorials of the Cheshire Regiment, 8000+ of whom died in the Great War alone. More affecting was the plaque I found this morning in Lanercost. It memorialized two brothers, officers of the 7th and 21st Northumberland Fusiliers, who were both killed in 1916, one of them in the first day on the Somme. They were their parents' only children. Underneath was an extra plaque marking their father, who died in 1917. I wonder if it was from grief.

Lanercost was visited several times by Edward I Longshanks, who spent his last six months there (though he died elsewhere shortly after leaving). The Priory was bankrupted by his visit and Edward apparently built many extra buildings nearby to hold his 200-strong retinue; the priory itself only held around 15 brothers. Edward did pay them back; unfortunately, it was in the form of future revenues from two other churches, which didn't help right then when they needed it most!

What I'm most impressed by is that these churches, most dating to the 13th century, are still being actively used. They are really solid, in more ways than one, and there is a sense of history that is lacking in the US, for obvious reasons. Yet again I'm reminded that "To the Brits 200 miles is a long way; to the Americans 200 years is a long time."

Lanercost was owned at one point by the Dacres, a Border family that turned part of the church into a peel tower. I remember that a Dacre commanded the Guerriere against the Constitution in 1812, and this is relevant because the next place we went was John Paul Jones' birthplace in Kirkbean, Scotland, south of Dumfries. Born in a tiny croft that is very hard to get to; we've noticed that the roads in Britain are either about as wide as a US city street (the motorways), or tiny little trails that are often unpaved. Dad's driving is very white-knuckle. They are very proud of Jones in Arbigland, the estate where he was born (regardless of the fact that everyone else here thinks of him as a pirate). It turns out that during his first raid, on the home of a lord he admired, his officers looted the silver and Jones bought it back and returned it after the war.

Also, in his first victory, in the sloop Ranger against the similarly sized HMS Drake, he was probably helped by the fact that he captured several of the Drake's officers beforehand, having fooled them into boarding what they thought was a civilian vessel... they must have been quite disorganized!

We're now in a B&B outside Glasgow; will take the bus in tomorrow. I'm hoping to find the piping tourney that they're having all this month.

Well, we are flying by the seat of our pants now, currently one day ahead in our plans. Currently in Oban. In the last two days we have seen three castles (Stirling, Dumbarton, and one I can't pronounce just outside Oban) one military museum (Argyll and Sutherlands), Bannockburn (by mistake, while looking for Falkirk), and two engineering marvels: the Falkirk Wheel and the ruins of a blast furnace built in 1753.

I so wish I could stay longer in all these places. But we wanted to see a lot, and ultimately I think it's turning out well. But I have 30 more days to burn; I just might come back next year...

Went to Iona yesterday. Relaxing and spiritual. It was home to a religious order founded by the Irish St. Columba, who brought Xianity to Scotland. A holy place, and I can see why. There are fine carvings, remains of a monastery and green hills. Many kings were buried in the little cemetery. It was a signal honor; that's why I was most moved by the three gravestones of merchant seamen washed ashore during World War II. That these unknown 'commoners' lie there among the 'great' seems very appropriate.

We stayed the night on Mull. Drove down a winding one-lane road between green bens with the white fog rolling down them in the morning, split by silver streams running down the hillsides.

Now in Glencoe. It is forbidding and towering. One of the most beautiful places I've been so far on this trip.

I hope you didn't spend too much time in the main area of Scotland. I've had one exchange student at the U of Edinburgh from Vermont and one family member tell me the main cities are...lacking.

Well, we didn't do much in Glasgow, but we're on our third day in Edinburgh now and I could spend a week just wandering the streets and looking at the public architecture. The history museum has the Lewis Chessmen (Norse figures) and a variety of other interesting stuff, and we only saw half the castle so far; we're going up to see the rest before the Tattoo tonight. We also did a ghost tour last night, which was fun. It included a shot of whiskey, but Dad didn't want to stay in the very loud pub so we skipped that part... There's also a lot of busking going on and we have seen three shows -- the Battlefield Band, two of its members and crew on a solo gig, and North Sea Gas, all of which were fun. I'm sure it's not as exciting outside of August but I think we've both enjoyed ourselves.

The Walter Scott Monument reminds me distinctly of Battlefleet Gothic; it's a monstrosity. The stairwell is narrow but the view from the top is pretty good.

This might be a bit late, but assuming your taking a lot of photos, do yourself a favor, and put yourself in the photo. While a picture of an ancient castle or cathedral is cool, it's WAY cooler to have physical evidence that you were there.

Check out St. Andrews, play some golf there for us.

Ryjak, that's why they invented Photoshop! You can be in *every* photo, regardless of format (.gif, .jpg...)

And, Jen, are you gunna post some of these assumed photos?

GNOME

When I get home. Or maybe if I have time on this trip, haven't had much to spend on mucking aroodond with electronic gizmos...

Which reminds me, a couple of the photos are some very good shots Dad took of a WWII diorama. I hope to get his help taking pics of the Fighting Tigers and 28th RCT too, so as a related bonus you may get photos of my poorly painted armies shortly...

Was in a small Games Workshop on the Royal Mile. Pretty interesting to see here how the gaming and comic shops are right next to major streets instead of tucked away in shopping centers. There's no parking at all, and few buses in the commercial area (they stop just outside), so it's possibly to walk right in from the sidewalk.

Took in Westminster Abbey, the Churchill Museum and the Horse Guards museum, also Nelson's Column. Saw a changing of the Horse Guards -- the man in charge howled at the tourists in the way "MAKE WAY FOR THE GUARD!" And we moved!

Looked around for the statue of Slim and only just realized I just missed it; it must have been right behind us when we were looking at the RAF memorial outside the War Ministry. Did find the Gurkha Memorial and figured I was close.

Tomorrow we're going to see the Tower in the morning, and the Science and Natural History Museums in the afternoon. I want to look for Slim's statue again on the way home.

I've tried to upload a few pics, but I think they need drastic compression first...

I love the London museums. Westminster was probably my favorite.