So, I've decided to celebrate another re-entry into 40k by building my 400 point Scout Army and writing an Index Astartes styled article about my Vindicators. The B&C has a bunch of tips for writing an IA, but one obvious obstacle I have is that my Chapter has no real theme.

Theme is key to a good story, and I don't have one. The Fighting Tigers of Veda are compelling because they have Hinduism as a primary theme behind everything that happens; the Emperor's Finest use Islam as a theme; even Pat's Nordic Space Wolves are extra-thematic as they follow Keric Quickbrand and Ferin Ironhammer.

So, I've been thinking of where I could draw a theme from, something that inspires me. To get started, here are all the sources I can think of for a distinct theme:

Religion
Culture
Animals
Philosophy

Basically, anything that could potentially tell you how to conduct yourself in day-by-day living. Religion is practially about how to live your life, culture is how a group of people live their lives, animals have their own ways of living, and philosophy tries to create an explanation for why we are more than just animals.

Unfortunately, I don't have much interest in these subjects. I was thinking I should use Alchemy, with its four basic elements (earth, air, fire, water) since I've always had a bit of facination with the Elemental outlook, but I haven't a clue how to use it as a theme for a religious/militant organization. So, if you have any ideas...

Actually, Pat's uber-Dread character isn't Bjorn, he's Ferin Ironhammer, a former Iron Wolf (their version of a Techmarine).

Dah, I'm an idiot when I'm tired... that's what I get for staying up late.

I'm not having any epiphanies re the alchemy/elemental angle...though a book I'm reading about mass delusions and follies mentions that in addition to transmuting metals (via the philosopher's stone), alchemists were also interested in finding ways to prolong human lifespan....food for thought?

Also, from dictionary.com:



Whom do the Vindicators avenge? Why? And/or, taking the other sense of the word, whom do they show authority over? Why?

Just stuff to get the thinking process started.....

For your cultural reference you could always use Northern Europe during the early reformation and such (Francis Bacon, etc) or Italy during the Renaissance. Keep in mind the culture does not just have to be the primary planet they are drawn from, it could also be a reflection of the culture or political situation of the subsector that the Vindicators originally operated from. For my Widowmakers I used Balkans/Anatolia 1200-1550 AD.

Also what about geneseed? That is often a big determiner of demeanor and character for marines.

Keep in mind that while an awesome IA article is certainly a good thing, it doesn't have to be the only thing.

I can't write to save my life (just look up the revised IA over on the B&C for the Vultures) but people still know my Chapter because my "hook" is how they look. Orange armor, gargoyle helmets. They certainly do not know it because of the 40kified version of Zoroastrianism as a cultural background.

So don't stress yourself out trying to come up with a Tigereseque IA. If you want to go that detailed then look over Tigers site, Molotov's Castigators Chapter IA at the B&C and some of the IAs that have been refined enough to go into the Librarium at the B&C. Look at the common points that make them work and use that as a frame work for your own history and background.

Also, don't feel that you have to come up with everything at once. You can do bits and pieces at a time. My creativity comes in spurts and there are long gaps in between what I put down, and the next bit. Here's a recap of the armies I've used over the years.

The Short Hairs were a generic Space Wolf Great Company except for 2 characters, Bjord the Coward, and Garin Ten Fangs.

The 1st Duskenyan Guard were pretty much a 1990's American army themed with non-energy heavy weapons(autocannons, heavy bolters, and missile launchers)

Craftworld Giul-Tlic were a 'Biel Tan' army without Fire Dragons(story point) and with an odd tolerance for humans.

The Iron Cranes borrow heavily from Zen and Shaolin philosophy without actually naming it or having any overt asian visuals, except for the Crane icon.

In your case, you have Inquisitor Ryjak to build your Chapter around. Who is he? How does he behave? What effect does he have on the troops around him and that makes him and/or them different from the norm?

For the elemental/alchemical angle, there are lots of things you could do, from squad names to battlefield behavior. Assault squads are aggressive and proactive(Fire), Landspeeders are very mobile and reactive(Air or Water). Tac squads and Dev squads could be very defensive(Earth). Vanguard and Sternguard could talk to animals(Heart) Wait... that's Captain Planet.

Anyway, it doesn't take much to get started.

Fire and Earth and such have been co-opted by the Tau: maybe name squads after precious metals? Goes with the alchemist theme.....

I had a great post going... but I clicked a short-cut link, and it all went away :

So, if you want to learn about alchemy, check out wikipedia. Lots of cool stuff I could potentially use, and maybe even some stuff El Tigredo could use as well.

I have this idea that the Vindicator chapter was founded to prove some accusation false. I can't come up with something that makes sense for, since the High Lords of Terra are responsible for creating a new Founding of Chapters. But I can see one High Lord manipulating events to create a specific chapter for a specific reason, but naming them Vindicators to justify his position seems a bit blatant.

A night or two ago, I jotted down all my ideas I still like for my chapter:

Index Astartes Article: Vindicators

Theme: ??? (Culture, Religion)
Purpose: Provide a story reason for fighting any army

Concept Ideas:
Inquisitor Ryjak sent to investigate chapter by Ordo Hereticus, eventually becomes ally.
Eldar are constantly "culling" the chapter from Chaotic Taint to keep them from falling.
As the Chapter is fairly isolated, it is dependant on a nearby Forgeworld to produce most of their war supplies, and thus is often tapped to recover items for the Mechanicus.
The Chapter has a good relationship with the Ordo Malleus.
Instead of normal company structure, has a "clan" structure, where each company "clan" runs its own indoctrination.
Recruits solely from one world, Fortress built on a moon attached by a space elevator. Recruits tested by ascending elevator... or... Has a way to draw recruits quitely and descretely or overtly and loudly, from a human population.
Build a star system using knowledge of space development theories.
Once a year the Vindicators halt combat operations for 24 hours to perform a Muster ceremony, withdrawing from combat if necessary.
Every ten years, each "company clan" halts operations to attend "Chapter Muster", where battle histories are shared, rivalries renewed, and the "Chapter Championship" is held.
Every one hundred years, the entire chapter goes on a penitance crusade to atone for deeds against the Sisterhood. Over 50% casualties must be sustained before ending the crusade, or all objectives met. This has lead to the chapter almost being wiped out several times, and never completing all mission objectives.

In a universe where a Chapter was named Blood Angels *before* they became vampires, I wouldn't worry about it.

Ok some good stuff here, some stuff I'd recommend changing and some stuff I'd drop all together.

So first, good stuff that helps to start building the background:
Instead of normal company structure, has a "clan" structure, where each company "clan" runs its own indoctrination. Fairly close to IH but if they are an IH Successor not entirely surprising.

Recruits solely from one world, Fortress built on a moon attached by a space elevator. Recruits tested by ascending elevator... or... Has a way to draw recruits quitely and descretely or overtly and loudly, from a human population. -- Only issue I have with this is that it seems the Space Elevator can take anyone from anyone where on the planet, typically in Sci-Fi a space elevator is anchored to one position on a world. Perhaps the 1st trials are to get to the elevator location. Anyone who survives that gets taken up for further trials?

Every ten years, each "company clan" halts operations to attend "Chapter Muster", where battle histories are shared, rivalries renewed, and the "Chapter Championship" is held. -- Good esprit de corps set up there. 10 years seems a little short in this regard but if the Chapter is very active it would be understandable.

And the things that I would recommend to drop or change:


Eldar culling the Chapter to prevent it falling to Chaos -- this seems way too gimmicky. Maybe just say that in their area of space they fight the Eldar on a regular basis.


Build a star system using knowledge of space development theories. - Not entirely sure what are saying here. Are you saying they are creating their own little Ultramar? Or literally building a star and planets? If the later where and how did they acquire such amazing technology??


Once a year the Vindicators halt combat operations for 24 hours to perform a Muster ceremony, withdrawing from combat if necessary. -- Impractical for several reason but the primary one being if this is to hold true they could never venture farther than 1 days warp travel from their homeworld.

Every one hundred years, the entire chapter goes on a penitance crusade to atone for deeds against the Sisterhood. Over 50% casualties must be sustained before ending the crusade, or all objectives met. This has lead to the chapter almost being wiped out several times, and never completing all mission objectives.

-- This comes kind of out of left field doesn't it? Doesn't seem to be a mention of anything involving an Order in earlier posts? Also requiring 50% casualties every 100 years, your Chapter would have died out long ago. It simply takes too long to get new Marines. Insignium Astartes points out how Chapters reaching 25% or less of strength are doomed to die no matter what they do and here you are dancing on the edge of that every century??


You have way too much going on. With possibly falling to Chaos, some slight to the Sisterhood (doesn't seem to be explained anywhere so far), under suspicion of the =][= but on good relations with the Ordo Malleus?? Under the "watchful eye" of the Eldar for some reason and the Chapter is evidently trying to prove some claim to be false and yet commit suicide in the process?


As for the reason for a name issue. Insignium Astartes says the new Chapter Master (at the time of Founding) is given a list of proscribed names to not use but is otherwise free to name his new Chapter and pick their livery. Vindication can mean the justification against denial or censure. Perhaps your sector of space was out of the light of the Imperium for a long time or under sway of the Tau or some other Xenos and have essentially denied the Emperor and his right to rule the Galaxy. Your Chapter was created and tasked with showing them the error of that belief.

It doesn't have to be one of those themes. The Iron Hands, IronWarriors, World Eaters, Aurora Chapter or Mentor Legion have other themes, like technological affinity or reliance on certain aspects of warfare. Maybe your Chapter is just very excentric in one way or another? The Silver Skulls never go to war unless they see some kind of omen that can be interpreted as a sign from the Emperor, for example. Perhaps your Chapter allways tries extra hard tat no alien gets away and hunt all fleeing survivors down, or something like that. Perhaps they are very bureaucratic and insist on formally recording all dealings with other Imperial institutions. (There may be a potential story arc in there where members of the Inquisition or the Mechanicus trie to obtain or destroy some of their records.)
Your theme does not necessarily have to be modeled after some contemporary earth culture or religion, it just has to be something your Chapter is very involved in or obsessed with.



If they are xenos or heretics, you have your reason right there. I personally interprete loyalists vs. loyalists games as "training manouvers". If you have found a theme you can certainly think of reasons why that would rub other Imperial forces the wrong way.

That's some great input Kurgan; thank you. I'll reply to a few...

Chapter Organization: I always felt each company should be it's own little army in a Strike Cruiser, with its own recruiting program and veterans. The only "main" chapters like this are Space Wolves and Iron Hands, and since Space Wolves don't have successors...

Space Elevator: I mostly like the idea of having this little thread streatching up into the heavens, and a legend on a low-tech world about how you can ascend to godhood if you can make it to the "tower".

Chapter Muster: If 10 years is to short, what is a good timespan?

Eldar Involvement: This mostly came from an idea of explaining why the Vindicators are teamed up with Chaos Marines in a 2v2 battle. What if the Chapter itself has a tendancy to fall to Chaos? It was easy to come up with this idea of Eldar trying to prevent a chapter from falling by culling certain personel before anything significant happens... and I thought it'd be a great way to explain why Eldar attack the Chapter at any time. Especially if the Vindicators can't distinguish between "Light" Eldar and "Dark" Eldar. Their ignorance would prevent them from knowing what's going on, so this Culling would just be in the background of stories and such, and not even hinted at.

Star System: Just an idea for using current ideas for why we should go into space this century within stories about the chapter. Including things like asteroid mining, gas giant skimming, building solar power sattelites from lunar dirt, research colonies, orbital factories... you know, the stuff you rarely read about in 40k fiction.

Yearly Muster Ceremony: Just have this short-story idea of some IG General recounting his experience with the Vindicators. How they were tasked to assist in some grueling campaign (probably against Orks on an Imperial planet), started making a difference, and right in the middle of the big push, they just up and leave for a day. Everything falls apart, the marines are charged with heresy and whatnot, and then they land in a massive counter-assault and crush the enemy decisively. With everything pacified enough for the IG to mop up, they leave, giving a cryptic explanation of how duty and honor required these actions.

100 Year Crusade: I'll try to keep this short. I mostly wanted a reason to regularly throw the entire chapter at an opponent, since it's pretty rare for an entire chapter to do anything. I have this idea that the Vindicators often end up fighting the Sisters of Battle, usually because they're trying to recover some artifact for the Mechanicus, or ideological differences. After one particularly bad incident, the Ordo Hereticus held a full tribunal, found the Chapter guilty, and levied this punishment to keep them in check... actually, they're trying to destroy them, but they can't go that far. This was the best they could do. Maybe 25% sounds better? For me, a casualty is when a combatant is no longer "combat-effective", but I suppose most people don't have that distinction.

I personally liked the unusual specializations of some of the companies, particularly the one that insisted on arming everyone with plasma guns, and reveled in the resultant burns and injuries.

The space element might provide a reason for their being looked at askance by the Sororitas -- a lot of the research we're doing today would be outright banned by the Mechanicus, which is instead trying to research how the ancients did it. Perhaps the Vindies are influenced by a rogue sect of hereteks who are trying to innovate and have picked the Vindicators' home system to do it in.

The Year of Muster ceremony, while interesting, has too much of a Dark Angels feel to me, as in how they drop what they're doing (no matter how crucial) when they find links to the Fallen. Also, why would they join a months-long campaign when they know their anniversary is coming up in a few weeks? Marines specialize in "getting in, getting out" anyway, so I'd think they'd just do the "massive counter-assault" from the start.

Every 100 years to renew their vows of allegiance to Emperor and Primarch (if they know who that is). Perhaps this abandonment of the IG in their past is what lead to them coming under the scrutiny of the Hereticus initially and now centuries/millenia later they use the Chapter Muster each century to renew their oath of loyalty. The 100 years representing the time most Chapters are sent on penitent crusades.



You don't hear about these things because they don't make for an exciting novel. In terms of a fluff perspective these are mundane tasks, beneath a Marine Chapter. Now if a Forgeworld is in this sector of space and the Marines have vows of protection then it may explain why they defend these types of installations, but not build them.




If your Chapter is prone to falling to Chaos then it really wouldn't be something they could hide from the Inquisition. Hunted, pursued and driven into extinction is what this means. If all this is meant to simply justify the occasional 2v2 game where you are teamed with a Chaos army, it doesn't have to be something this convoluted. It could be as simple as the they don't know the Marines they are fighting alongside are renegades. Though hopefully not something as ridiculous as the Necron/Blood Angel team up on the new BA codex.

It makes this part:


even more unnecessary. Again, a Chapter that regularly fights the forces of the Imperium are Heretics and Traitors. You would be declared Excommunicate and be forced out on your own, hunted by everyone.

Culled by Eldar, hunted by the Inquisition and a suicide streak (forcing casualties) equals a rapidly killed off Chapter.

Right now there are just too many flavors going into the snow cone.

Some thoughts on a direction to take (very rough):

In Mxx The Chapter is deployed to the planet El Tigre to assist the 4th Kromarch Guard against Chaos attacking the world. Inexplicably (as is their way) the Eldar show up and seem to assist the Imperial Forces against the Chaos rebels. However for reasons unknown the Eldar isolate and kill the Vindicators Chapter Master and then leave the planet. This idea being stolen from the new Path of the Warrior novels in which Eldar Farseers foresee a Marine (not named but described as a Black Templar) Sergeant changing the course of the Altaioc craftworld for the worst. During a battle a squad of Striking Scorpions appear and kill the Sergeant.

Enraged the Chapter regroups and begins a rapid evac of the planet to pursue the Eldar, abandoning other Imperial Forces. The Imperial Commanders decry the move and send word out that the Vindicators are cowards! The local Sisters order seeing this can't believe it is happening and attempt to stop the Marines, resulting in a "friend on friend" skirmish. Ultimately the Chapter is declared renegade for their actions.

Inquisitor Ryjak eventually tracks the Chapter down and over the course of the chase comes to believe the Chapter isn't as bad as everyone is making them out to be. At this point he is befriended by the Chapter and convinces them to take a penitent Crusade to prove their loyalty to Emperor and Imperium.

This crusade sends them to the area of Space they currently control. One world of which they lay claim too (having given up their original homeworld prior to the Crusade). Now the Chapter is "vindicated". Millenia later they continue to fight the Eldar (perhaps this region of space has several Exodite worlds) and every century the entire Chapter gathers on their home world to renew their vows of loyalty.

I always liked it too, but I never felt like building it. I do recall it inspired someone in 2000, since we e-mailed back and forth a bit on it, so maybe another Vindicator Company is running around out there...


I like that idea; I think I'll borrow it. I wasn't planning on having the Vindicators doing any Space Development stuff; I don't want them to even have a home system, really. They're SPACE Marines, not Planet Marines. Heck, I think Space Marines would conduct more boarding actions than planetary assaults. The ground battle is always more important than the space battle in the 40K setting, but that seems silly to me.


Good point, and something I couldn't resolve myself. Maybe instead, they hold a Muster ceremony after every engagement, or every 30 days if a Company somehow gets stuck in a protracted conflict. I was mostly trying to emphasize that Space Marines don't care about the Imperium in general, they're just trying to fight honorably for the Emperor.
Something else that has always bothered me. How in the world could a Space Marine force of any size end up in a long campaign without suffering so many casualties that they become combat ineffective?



by going on a Chapter Crusade? I was mostly looking for a way to get the entire Chapter fighting together on a somewhat regular basis, instead of an emergency basis. I suppose the reasons to point the Chapter at the same target doesn't matter as much.


Good point. I wasn't really going for the whole chapter is prone to falling; it just seemed like the best reason to have Eldar mess with a Space Marine Chapter. In the often forgotten fluff, the only reason "Light" Eldar still exist is because they're so good at predicting and manipulating the future. I can see them selectively killing certain people within the Chapter to manipulate future events. The "fall to Chaos" future event was simply the most obvious to me.
Never understood why they couldn't repopulate worth a damn, though.


Another good point. So, how do I give a fluffy explanation for why the Vindicators, Champions of all that is Holy under the Emperor, are attacking any Imperial Forces? The only time I've ever seen that done well was with Gaunt's Ghosts (IG vs IG.) Everything else seemed just as convoluted as my idea. Might as well ask me to invent a reason for the US Air Force and US Army to start fighting each other in Afghanistan.



That's almost the exact idea I had. Have you been reading my notes?


To me, that's also a fairly poor explanaition for a "Force on Force" engagement. Accidental conflicts do happen, but they usually don't last very long.



Actually, my idea is quite different. Inquisitor Ryjak is a paranoid little guy from fighting people possessed by demons. As he investigates the Chapter, he's constantly finding "proof" of heresy, because he can't help but see it. I never came up with a good plot for why he'd make his presence known, but my general idea was the Chapter ends up fighting a demonic outbreak, and Ryjak's desire to slay demons leads to him revealing himself.

Well I did say it was a rough thought for some structure (and no haven't been reading notes).




The problem with the every 30 day or after each engagement angle is that most Chapters don't fight as a single unit at all times. They are usually spread out within their area of "control" and forcing yourself home after a month means you greatly restrict your ability to travel through the warp.

Every Century is a little more forgiving in that respect.

As for surviving campaigns, remember that every casualty on a table top isn't a dead marine and that the BL books often have inflated #s to create a better story. Marines are VERY hard to kill. Dark Creed (the 3rd Word Bearer novel) has some great Marine on Marine combat involving half of a Chapter against 3 or 4 full Word Bearer Hosts. It isn't perfect but it is a decent account of how tough Marines are too kill.




Same novel that mentions the Marine sgt. being assassinated gives a lot of great background info on Craftworld Eldar and part of that is why they have the low birth rate. The Sons of Orar (not named but I emailed Gav about it) invade the Altaioc Craftworld in this book.




But now I'm confused about Ryjak. I thought he was a Hereticus Inquisitor not Malleus?

/tangent



Or design armor better than a Catachan's tank top.

/tangent off

/tangent


It would be too heavy and their Grav-tanks wouldn't be fast vehicles. Plus, it wouldn't match Eldar's theme, they are more of a "You can't hurt me if I'm too fast for you to hit" army.

/tangent off

And I don't know if Inquisitors are paranoid, I kinda thought they were more overly suspiscious of everything rather than imagining threats. I'm not doing a good job, but there is a difference between paranoia and zealous suspiscion.

Also, how does he hide and observe the Chapter? He can't really infiltrate their ranks since Marines recruit at ages 10-16, and the Imperium (while certainly not the best place to raise children) isn't at the point of employing minors for Inquistors.

/tangent


That would be fine, if they got some kind speed defense bonus, cuz if they just wore the tank tops instead of the armored suits they'd be lighter and faster.

/tangent off

Maybe Inquisitor Ryjak *tried* to infiltrate, got caught(noob!); his innate honesty recognized, the Vindicators offered him full access/ride along privileges as insurance against the rest of the Inquisition.

Kurgan: Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. However, I am disappointed that you can't tell the difference between a Company and a Chapter One has an "Y", the other has an "P"... no, an "R". In any case, idea was to have a Company Muster on a regular basis, regardless of the combat situation. In a way, it kinda makes sense for Marines to conduct a strategic withdrawl if they're getting bogged down on a planet, and then re-evaluate and re-deploy.

I only wanted to do the Chapter Muster thing every 10 years or so, and have a Chapter Crusade every century.

Honestly, I'm not really sure anymore if Ryjak should be Hereticus or Malleus. I don't really understand the differences off-hand, since anyone worshiping or summoning Demons is a Heretic, but not every Heretic messes with Demonic forces. Back in 2nd Edition, Ryjak's job was to squash Greater Demons, and he usually excelled at it. It made more sense to have him Hereticus for investigating the Chapter, though, especially since my idea for the chapter doesn't allow even one member to start worshipping demons.

Sorry if that makes no sense... mostly stream of conciousness, and I'm not going to spend 10 minutes sorting it out, like I usually do.

Mephet'ran: Most Inquisitors are simply suspicious, but Ryjak is paranoid. Just read the stuff I wrote on a website 10 years ago. As for investigating the Chapter, there are tons of ways to do this. Planting cameras and microphones within a Fortress Monestary is childs play for even a novice Inquisitor, hacking their computers is difficult but not impossible, but it takes a truely dedicated Inquisitor to plant operatives within a Fortress Monestary. There's about 10 serfs per Space Marine.

Vindicator Serfs are recruits who didn't pass part of their indoctrination process, ranging from those who simply aren't genetically compatable, to those who simply don't have the proper intelligence or personality, to recruits who survivied and passed everything, but lack the proper esprit de corps. They end up doing dirty jobs...

In any case, the Chapter doesn't like Inquisitor Ryjak after the big reveal, but they grudgingly respect him.

In any case, while it's certainly fun to hash out my ideas, and infinately useful for me, it's not my main goal. I'm still looking for a theme to focus my thoughts and ideas; a framework to give these ideas structure and purpose. I'm still at a loss there...

How about a theme where they're so average, nondescript, and bland; that they always get mistaken for other various chapters (not just White Scars)

In my defence you never mentioned Company Musters:




So I had to assume you were talking about the entire Chapter.

It wasn't until this that a Company is even brought up in relation to the Muster:


But anyway on to more important things.





Hereticus specialize in Heretics, those who go against the Imperial Creed. The Sisters of Battle being their Chamber Militant. The Malleus specialize in the daemonic. The Grey Knights being their Chamber Militant. Xenos specialize in alien-killing. The Deathwatch being their Chamber militant. Based off this most recent description of Ryjak he would fit the mold of a Ordo Malleus Inquisitor.



Fine, fine! On to themes! Sometimes it just helps to take one from a list (assuming you have one) and just go with it. Otherwise you spend most of your time see-sawing back and forth between multiple ideas and your Chapter sits around never being fully fleshed out. Truth be told there is something to said to Wandering1's concept of a "normal" Chapter. Not flashy or bombastic or even boasting of their deeds. They simply exist to serve the Emperor and go about their job without seeking accolade, thanks or recognition.

I'm embarrased... you hit the nail on the head, on all accounts. A theme's purpose isn't to make the Vindicators amazing or anything (they're not) it's mostly just to give me a direction. ANY direction.

I just thought of something else. Since every Loyalist SM Codex has been redone for 5th Edition (except Dark Angels, right?) should I consider using one of those instead of the Space Marine Codex?

Unless you're seriously considering having them be successors of those chapters, I wouldn't. Although when it comes down to it, I have a Black Templars vibe from them for some reason.

You're right -- what you really need is a hook, and you don't have one. Here's my suggestion: Why, in their own backstory, were they named the Vindicators?

Everyone else has an obvious reason for their name -- for that matter, the names themselves evoke the spirit of the chapter. Think of the Big Four -- Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves all exemplify their themes with their names. If you knew nothing else about them, you could guess something of their nature from the names alone.

So what are the Vindicators ... vindicating?

Themselves? Perhaps their name was once something else, they were horribly disgraced (perhaps wrongly, as "vindication" has a connotation of overturning a wrongful conviction, or of being proved correct about something) , and they have changed their name to indicate their intention to vindicate themselves in the eyes of the wider Imperium. The Imperium is obviously suspicious of them for SOME reason; after all, Inq. Ryjak was sent to find out more. Perhaps they did not do whatever they are accused of, and seek to prove not just their loyalty but that they were wrongfully accused in the first place.

The Imperium is a society packed with shame and guilt. The Dark Angels and Blood Angels are both trying to cover up and overcome skeletons in their closets. Perhaps the Vindicators are different -- while there is something terrible in their past, they believe they can overcome it, rise above it -- but no one else agrees with them. Hence their chapter name, which evokes their confidence, self-righteousness, and perhaps hubris.

Or perhaps they vindicated someone else. Perhaps some organization or even another Chapter was accused of Heresy or Taint , and they were sent to take them down. They discovered the accusations were false, saving that chapter, and were renamed in recognition.

Why not both? What if something "horrible" happened in the Chapter's past, and they not only emerged vindicated from their crime, but they now crusade to "bring others to the light"? But unlike the Dark Angels, they're not trying to cover anything up; it's for your own good.

Or maybe they're the A-Team of the 40k Universe?

Inquisition got you down? Imperial Guard occupying your planet? If you pray to the Emperor, if you believe in his Humanity, maybe he'll send... his Vindicators.

Of course, I could always try to come up with a new name, too, and use that to build a theme. Maybe the Void Angels, or Vahallans, or Voyagers , or Vengence, or even Vanilla Marines. Hmm...

Dang, I could write an IA for a chapter simply called Elementalists. Oh well.

Could be Dark Angels.

The D.A-Team:

Deathwing Captain Hannibal; Howling Mad Moloch, Ravenwing pilot; D.A. Daricus, Dark Angel Devastator; Chaplain Peck(of the Temple?)

Okay, all but the last one are pretty good.

How 'bout:

Eldar got you down? Orkish Hordes occupying your planet? If you pray to the Emperor, if you believe in his Humanity, maybe he'll send... his Vindicators.


The reason all the companies are off in different directions is due to them attacking enemy held planets / areas that are close to falling, vindicating those who have fallen in combat already and claim back what is rightly the Emperors':

Vindicate:

to assert, maintain, or defend (a right, cause, etc.) against opposition.

Roman and Civil Law . to regain possession, under claim of title of property through legal procedure, or to assert one's right to possession.

to get revenge for; avenge.


They're sort of a rapid response group, and Ryjak rolls with them to examine any planets for remaining signs of taint (he doesn't necessarily have to be from a specific Ordo, not all Inquisitors are I don't think).

I have to get up in 5 hours now... but I just wasn't that tired. My mind was running up and in neutral, so I put it in gear and came up with some more ideas. What do you think?

During the Chapter’s early days, it worshiped all the Primarchs, Loyal and Fallen, as part of a Pantheon, with the Emperor as the Father of All.

Declared Excommunicate for this deviant practice. Homeworld and Battle Barges destroyed during the inevitable conflict (by Marines, IG, Inquisition?) but all Strike Cruisers not there.

‘Something’ happens where they redeem themselves, perhaps forsaking their worship of Fallen Primarchs. Maybe an inner-chapter war, where those worshiping Horus, etc. are killed off? Afterwards, form 8 semi-independent Companies, one for each Loyalist Primarch.

Back when the Pope and the Catholic Church indirectly ruled Europe, Knightly Orders and Kings were declared Excommunicate when they didn’t practice the Church’s teachings. I expect it’s the same thing in the Imperium. However, it was possible to overturn an Excommunication, by repenting and changing your ways…

Regular Chapter events keep disparate Companies cohesive as a Chapter, such as Chapter Muster and Chapter Crusade… the Crusade of Vindication, when the entire Chapter must prove its loyalty to the Imperium by trying to bring a Renegade Chapter back into the fold.

Why is Inquisitor Ryjak involved with them? Why is an Inquisitor ever involved with a Chapter? By definition, an Inquisitor is trying to unravel some mystery by any means necessary. Probably best to just have him requisition the Vindicators for some task, based on some oath they took during their redemption… and since he’s paranoid, he’s also investigating the Chapter to make sure they’re still Loyal.

Start over? Exterminating Angels...

"There's just black holes where the stars should have been...plumes of dirt caress a urine colored sun, swarms of angels come to kill your sons...rising up, taste of jagged glass and rusty can...here it comes again, hordes of locust blot out your sun..."

Just an idea... from a Song...

GNOME

This would leave a sour taste in my mouth. Your chapter would have bee created post-heresy from a loyalist chapter. Is there anyway you could justify a loyalist successor being created and allowed to adopt this belief? They would owe loyalty and fealty to their progenitor chapter and to the Emperor. To the other loyal Primarchs may even be a stretch.



Actually, historically, the easiest way to achieve this was to surplant the current pope with one more loyal to you by either politics or family lineage. Or, just declare a new pope as there were as many as 3 popes at once.

How could the beliefs be adopted? Who says the Powers That Be were loyalists, themselves? Imagine if the creators of the Vindicators were either unaffiliated, or actually servants of Chaos? What havoc could you wreak by creating a "Loyal" yet corrupted Chapter? Oh, the twisting and turning... and, also why once they were shown the error of their ways became the Vindicators... Vindicating Humanity from benighted ignorance. Maybe, especially, their own?

*shrug* But then again, I am an idiot.

GNOME

I thought it would be best to compile all of your ideas, and then move from there.

Just use the name “Vindicators” for the theme
First… duh, why didn’t I really think of that! Strangely, it’s difficult for me to get the connotations of this word. Vindicate means to clear someone of suspicion (usually in a legal sense; i.e. prove innocent) through forceful means. That doesn’t do much for me, but the older, obsolete definition of taking action for liberation and vengeance… I think I can work with that: a war to vindicate disloyalty. Those participating in this war are Vindicators.

Use Inquisitor Ryjak as a story hook
Unfortunately, this is something I’ve struggled with as well. I really like the idea of having a paranoid Inquisitor covertly investigating the chapter, but I can’t bridge that to having an Inquisitor on the tabletop battlefield. Maybe I should have two Inquisitors… one in the shadows, and the other not just in the light, but bashing demons over the head with it. A marine chapter focused on liberation and vengeance would probably be all about supporting a guy like that, right?

Chapter Organization and Traditions
Everyone seems to like the “Chapter Unification” ideas in general, especially when you consider how independent I want each Company to be. I need something other than “clan” though; that’s too much like “tribe” or “family.” I also really liked the idea of having each company follow their own little Primarch religion, even if it broke a suspension of disbelief. So maybe I just need to take it down a notch.
Instead of Primarchs, perhaps each company follows the battle doctrine and philosophy of a “founding father” of the chapter, and they put their genetic Primarch as a uniting figure, with the Emperor as a progenitor. I suppose the term “house” or “lodge” would work better here. It would certainly create a foundation for Company rivalry and competition, while still keeping the whole united.

Mechanicus Influence
The more I think about it, the more I want my chapter to be involved with the Priests of Mars, but not necessarily in a beneficial way. So, I’ll borrow Jen’s idea and have them supplied by a rogue Machine Cult that’s actually doing some innovative things, like developing a star system using solar sails and nuclear power. I’m sure both of those are outright banned by the Mechanicus. Throw in a space elevator powered by a volcano and some solar power satellites, and I think I can have some fun with that setting as a base of operations.

Turns out I’m pretty tired at 1 AM, so I’ll call that good ‘nuf for now.

Ok, when you say 'star system' are you referring to Propulsion? or a Location?

Location: A central sun(s) with orbiting planets. Why do you ask?

Well, you said the Mechanicus Cult was 'developing' a star system; and I wasn't sure what you meant. terraforming? colonizing?

More along the lines of mining asteroids, moons, hydrogen gas, and solar power. The stuff we should have underway to some extent when I die. Colonization is simply a by-product of these activities. Sorry for the confusion.

But what about everything else, especially my Theme verbalized: The Vindicators are a chapter founded to liberate human worlds that have been conquered/enslaved by Aliens, Mutants, and Heritics, and do so with a strong sense of duty, honor, justice, and vengence. How dare they defile the Emperor's vision for a united humanity?

No room for comprimise there. Either you're with the Imperium, or you're an enemy who must be swiftly crushed and cleansed.

I guess I should take the lack of response as a default green light to write something coherent... I was hoping for some clarity on how to use "Vindicator" as a theme, since I have yet to see how anyone can actively vindicate anything. For me, someone is vindicated when they have a position, someone attacks that position... and the attacker then retracts or apologizes because they were wrong.

But maybe I'm just understanding the word correctly.

I had this vague idea that my chapter name comes from how they find recruits. Perhaps they recruit from people that are imprisioned for "protesting" against the inherent corruption and abuse within the Imperium, instead of following the ideals of the Emperor. The recruits are thus vindicated by the Chapter, and potentially become 'honorable' marines.

At the very least, that would provide a reason to covertly or overtly snatch people.

they create situations in which the Imperium can survive: Survival is Vindication of struggle.

Maybe ?

GNOME

I do think you've pretty well got it worked out. I'm not sure I like the idea of "snatching" 'vindicatable' people for use as recruits, maybe because it doesn't sound 40Kish enough. The whole point of 40K is 'THERE IS NO JUSTICE.' And the whole point of vindication is to overcome injustice. I can definitely see this though, now I think of it, as being a reason for Ryjak to be interested in the chapter (ie, for much the same reasons the Inquisition are becoming more interested in, say, the 28th Cadian and the Fighting Tigers).

'20th Century sensibilities? Heresy!'

Hmm. "Justice" is not a 20th-century concept. Neither is "vindication".

A shorthand look at two historical concepts of justice are the Greek goddess Themis (also the goddess of social order, prophecy, and sacred oaths), and the Germanic god Forseti (also the god of mediation, ending strife, and laws).

Vindicators could easily work either of these two approaches and still be appropriately grim and dark, as befits the 40K universe

Tell you what, Ken, we'll discuss it dinner tomorrow night before I go to work. Or not.